Re:Re: Holocaust Denial Movie Debu...read emgnerd's comments!

The current article addresses the points made by a YouTube user who goes by the handle "quest1234", a Holocaust denier, in a video response to one of my debunkings of denierbud's videos. No need to beat around the bush, I'll list the claims (all of which deal with numbers) and deal with them:

Quest's claim no. 1: The 1938 World Almanac gave the worldwide jewish population at 15,588,259. In 1945, the New York times newspaper claimed that the Worldwide Jewish population was at 15,600,218 blah blah. The point? Unless the Jewish reproduction rate was extremely high, six-five million Jews could not have been killed.

The easiest problem to point out with this argument is the sources upon which Quest bases his numbers upon. One of them is the World Almanac, and the other is an American newspaper, the New York Times. That these type of sources are not considered reliable was amazingly even briefly recognized by one of the leading Holocaust deniers, Germar Rudolf. This itself was noted in a Holocaust Controversies article by historian Dr. Nick Terry:

However, while searching through the aforementioned tome looking to see how Rudolf dealt with demographics, that weakest of revisionist gambits, I came across a howler so egregious that it warrants highlighting.

First the wisdom of the Young Jedi, a point so eminently sensible I had to pinch myself to remember who it was whose book I was reading:

You have to be very careful when you do that. Encyclopedias and other such works cannot really be called reliable sources in the strict scientific sense of the word…That also goes for items from newspapers or magazines. After all, journalists have never been famous for a penetrating knowledge of the topics they discuss.”
- Germar Rudolf, Lectures on the Holocaust, pp.44-45

However, Rudolf unsprprisingly but embarassingly used one of these same types of sources just 10 pages before:

And then the unwisdom of the same Young Jedi:

Precisely. The actual figure could have been much higher. For example, a British- American committee of investigation into the problem of the Jewish situation in Europe announced at a press conference in February 1946, according to United Press, that there were still 800,000 Jews in post-war Poland who all sought to emigrate.
Note 55: Keesings Archiv der Gegenwart, vol. 16/17, Rheinisch-westfälischesVerlagskontor, Essen 1948, p. 651,Item B of Feb. 15, 1946
- Germar Rudolf, Lectures on the Holocaust, p.35

So a newspaper and the World Almanac can hardly be used to "prove" anything regarding demographics. Holocaust historians like Raul Hilberg, Martin Gilbert, etc, have estimates broken down by country and are based on a variety of sources.

Quest's claim no. 2: The plaque at Auschwitz, until the "mid 80's" (actually 1990) claimed that four million had died at Auschwitz. They still parroted the six million number. The new plaque claimed that 1.5 had been killed. But the six million number stayed the same. Explain.

It should be noted that he number of Jews killed in the Holocaust ranges from 5-6 millon, and the four million number was not limited to Jews. But the biggest problem with this argument is that almost no serious historian has ever taken the four million number seriously. The incorrect four million number comes from the Soviets. In fact, as early as the 1960's, Holocaust historian Raul Hilberg already estimated the Auschwitz death toll closer to 1 million. So the denial "Auschwitz plaque" argument is a strawman, as shown above, but to this day, deniers still dish up this old strawman.

Quest's claim no. 3: Most Holocaust historians agree that the mass murder of Jews started in 1942 and ended in 1945. This would mean that 2 million would have to have been killed in concentration camps. When you break that down, 5, 556 would have needed to be killed daily. Now that is if they were killing every minute of the day, every hour of the day, i.e., nonstop. That itself seems a little odd. But the question is, how were the bodies taken care of? Those ovens, I'm being generous when I say that maybe you can strack 3 people on top of each other and burn them. But at that rate, it would take forever to burn those bodies, only three at a time. Then there's the theory that they dug holes and cremated the bodies there, the witnesses stated that the bodies just turned to ash. No way, the body is what, 75% water? They don't burn that quickly. Somebody who works in a crematorium can tell you that it takes a long time to burn ONE body, let alone 5,576 daily.

Since this is such a big waffle, i'll deal with each claim individually:

Most Holocaust historians agree that the mass murder of Jews started in 1942 and ended in 1945.

Really? Please cite all such historians who claim this. In reality, the mass murder of Jews in Europe began in June 22, 1941, following the start of Unternehmen Barbarossa, the German invasion of the Soviet Union, by the Einsatzgruppen killing units, who killed over a million Jews in Eastern territories.

This would mean that 2 million would have to have been killed in concentration camps.

Well, first of all, the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust ranges from 5-6 million, and second of all, the Jews killed in the Holocaust were not mainly killed in KZ's (Konzentrationslagers).

When you break that down, 5, 556 would have needed to be killed daily. Now that is if they were killing every minute of the day, every hour of the day, i.e., nonstop. That itself seems a little odd.

Well, it has already been showed above that Quest's number (5,556 daily) is flawed. But even if it wasn't, where has quest proven that killing 5.5 thousand people daily would require the murderers to be working "every minute of the day...24/7" (see Quest's video)? He hasn't. Aside from that, the numbers killed was very different from day to day. In Treblinka, sometimes as much as 12,000-15,000 people were killed daily, according to SS-Hauptsturmführer Franz Stangl, former kommandant of Treblinka. And in some days, obviously, barely any were killed.

But the question is, how were the bodies taken care of? Those ovens, I'm being generous when I say that maybe you can strack 3 people on top of each other and burn them. But at that rate, it would take forever to burn those bodies, only three at a time.

Presumably Quest is talking of the ovens at Auschwitz-Birkenau. Yes, roughly 3 corpses were stuffed in a muffle; there were several muffles per oven and several ovens per Krematoria. There were precisely 46 muffles in Birkenau. Where did Quest prove that it would take forever to cremate the bodies in Birkenau with those 46 muffles? Also, I think Quest should know that the majority of victims of the extermination camps and the Einsatzgruppen were not cremated in ovens. In fact, many victims were not cremated.

Then there's the theory that they dug holes and cremated the bodies there, the witnesses stated that the bodies just turned to ash.

Really? Which witness claimed that the bodies "turned into ash"? Back up your claim.

No way,

See above.

the body is what, 75% water?

And?

They don't burn that quickly.

Whoah there, where did you cite any witness claiming a specific amount of time and where did you prove that the time claimed by them is too little to burn a corpse in reality?

Somebody who works in a crematorium can tell you that it takes a long time to burn ONE body

Who, exactly, and using what ways? By the way, please make sure that this person knows the difference between Topf und Söhne ovens and civillian cremation ovens, and also make sure that this individual knows the difference between civillian cremation practices and Nazi concentration camp cremation practices.

, let alone 5,576 daily.

See above.

So, I feel confident that I have dealt with Quest's claims reasonably. Therefore, he should either move on to other claims or provide his response.